What kind of pastoral care are you providing now?

UPDATE: October 2025

Because pastoral care is such a critical part of shepherding, here’s a little update to add to the one below.

I’ll not be able to recount every conversation here, but a quick continuation of the bullet-point summary below include new examples such as

• Mentoring a new ex-Satanist, helping him/her transform old ways of thinking into one shaped by the Bible and a biblical worldview

• Fielding multiple phone calls from a podcast listener, helping her walk through parenting a child with concerns of self-harm and sexual identity confusion

• Working with a young man interested in ministry to address his challenge with pornography

• Walking beside a small-town gal with a really big job offer/opportunity in a populous part of California

• Hospital visitation for a family facing a near-death physical trauma

These kinds of experiences might be assumed for a pastor, but my bi-vocational resume doesn’t have years and years of “pastor” in a way that communicates them. That said, counseling, mentoring, and personal/relational growth are all part of helping someone grow in Christ. I relish these, because it’s where, in a sense, operating in the power of the Spirit gets real.

April, 2024

A ministry of God’s word, I believe, “will not return void” (Is 55:10-11) because it’s His mission, not mine. Sometimes it’s focused on prayer and teaching (a la Acts 6), but more generally it’s incarnational ministry.

I say this, because I just moved to a new town and church (where my now-wife was attending before we married), and my primary ministry is via my daily Bible reading podcast, and it is from this that most of my care opportunities have bubbled recently. Put another way, listeners grow to trust me pastorally, and some of them reach out.

Just so far in the first few months of 2024 this has included:

• Newly married man asking about how to lead his wife well spiritually when she knows the Bible better than him

• Multiple members of one family (over multiple different calls) who just lost a baby to being stillborn

• A widow now dating asking for resources on how to discern a man who will be committed to a Jesus-centered wedding.

• Answering common questions (for multiple people) such as “What version of the Bible should I use?” or “What’s your take on gender dysphoria?”

• Answering uncommon questions such as one gal asking about a cult her mother is involved with

• Sharing the gospel with a mentee who identifies as queer

• Prayer for a listener headed into a hospital procedure

• A request to be at a hospital for another listener local to me.

At my new church I’ve already been asked to co-lead a small group and fill in for the men’s ministry leader facilitating a men’s meeting. Each of these led to a “pastoral moment” outside of the formal with someone who approached me for something.

The point is this: I’m already providing pastoral care to people regularly, and my current “ministry of the Word” is more than preaching/teaching… and while the podcast is the lead instrument of the ministry, I do more than just talk into a microphone. ;-)

Residency Update

This is a running commentary on my ~year of being Ministry Resident at Journey Church Tacoma.

The Final Quarter

The summer saw my DMin work shift into high gear, developing an adult ed program for me to lead based on my thesis project (Conversatio Divina: “Tell Me Your Story” as a Relational Spiritual Discipline). I just recently kicked it off with about 30 gracious people. This will help dial in the final form: all virtual for Follower of One, a marketplace mission community where I served on the leadership team and board for years.

Importantly, this quarter’s program will, by God’s grace, spur growth in the Holy Spirit in the congregation — and the data I’ll report back to the church on aggregate results in aggregate will bless all involved.

Finally, as of today I’ve haltingly emerged from my six-month sabbatical on my podcast, #ForTheHope Daily Audio Bible. Want to hear me serve somebody at Journey Church Tacoma dealing with actual Satanic warfare?

The First Nine Months

Besides a bit of preaching, I’ve been blessed by weekly, generously-lengthed 1:1 sessions with Pastor Myron Crockett. I also participate weekly in Staff meetings, monthly at Leadership Board meetings, and occasionally join the worship team.

Perhaps most educational (because it’s been the most intense) is a digital ministry that developed caring for and discipling a house church in Oregon that’s been a like a “Journey Church Tacoma South.” What a blessing to walk along side Spirit-filled on fire and leading others to eternal life in Christ. It’s been entirely a “do life together” ministry with a thousand teachable moments.

Finally, I’ve been blessed to have been given a chance to preach (I’m missing a couple, so check back):

Living Faithfully in a Shaky World (2 Peter 1:3-8), Aug 17, 2025

Job Description of the Church (Acts 1:8), June 22, 2025

Wise Up to Shore Up (James 1:13-18), Feb 16, 2025

Kicking Off

As of this writing (Christmas, 2024), I’m now a part-time “Minister in Residence.” I put that in quotation marks because the residency — a bit like a doctor doing a residency — is a time of learning and sharpening with the intentional guidance of the elder team.

The (slow) process of integration and “roll out” has begun, and we have made Journey Church Tacoma our covenantal home until the Lord calls us to a permanent assignment. My introduction to the congregation has begun with a couple preaching assignments. Most recently this was an advent message in a series about Old Testament promises (God With Us, 12/15/24).

Too, this has begun a formation-in-process mentoring relationship with the head pastor and elders that

1. has been coordinated with the Pacific Northwest district of Christian & Missionary Alliance to be in line with ordination (please also see this),

2. kicked off a season of reading/discussing books geared toward eldership/leadership,

3. initiated a multi-part training program including preaching, teaching, evangelism, etc.

As I said in my introduction, while I bring a lot of life experience to the table, I’m humble and eager to learn with my boots on the ground. And with my knees on the floor.

Soli Deo Gloria.

Connectorship?

I made up the word "connectorship" in August 2014. At the time I’d never heard a word expressed just like that. But to be fair, I don’t think I was actually the first person to do so.

I was on the plane on my way home from getting certified as a John Maxwell Team leadership coach, and I was contemplating what I’m good at that is also a transferrable skill. I was asking myself, ‘could I teach it?’ Could I help people become disciples who also then grew into disciple makers?

I so fell in love with the idea of "the art and skill of connecting people and ideas" that I even registered the domain name.

Years later, now a "connections" pastor is a common role in churches and similar roles in other non-profit settings.

What does not appear to be common is what they mean by that!

To me, there are a few essential ways to think about “connectorship:”

First, connectorship is both relational and propositional — about both people and ideas. In other words, sometimes it’s about people connecting with people, and sometimes it’s about people really ‘getting it’ with regard to an idea — learning, if you will, a concept, plan, estimate, purpose, or sense of something.

Interestingly (to me, anyway!) it perfectly fits the context of my doctoral work — relational spirituality — because God is the source and model for both. Only in Jesus do we find both personhood and truth perfectly unified.

Second, on the relational front, the ‘connections’ are first to God (Ro 12:1-2), other believers (Ro 12:3-8), and even strangers (if not also enemies and even secular institutions) (Ro 12:9-21, 13).

Importantly, connectorship is also connecting to yourself — your own story in light of God’s story. I’m not a Calvinist, but giving credit where credit is due, in the opening to Institutes John Calving pointed out just that — that the most foundational point of self-knowledge is a knowledge before our Creator that ‘compels us to look upward.’

The mission, then, is His mission (missio Dei). And the gifts of the Spirit are for His purposes. We first understand who we are in relation to God such that we realize we need a Savior, but then we must connect (together) to our own gifting in terms of reaching our own potential in God’s story.

Third, on the relational front, to me this means that small groups and other means of connecting the body to each other (He 10:24 et al) are as important as Sunday morning sermons. Yup…I just said it out loud. To state it in philosophical language, Sunday morning gatherings and sermons are a necessary, but insufficient, means for fueling the Christian life.

Fourth, connecting to “ideas” similarly is a necessary — but insufficient — means for fueling the Christian life. Of course we are to grow in knowledge, including of ourselves and our gifts, etc. And trust me, as a guy who is deep in psychometric instruments like Strengthsfinder, Meyers-Briggs, and even a certified coach in Core Values Index, I’ll argue all day long that the biblical conception of self-knowledge can only fully happen in community. But we learn things, about God, about the Bible, about ourselves, about theology, about a bunch of things so as to better relate relationally. We don’t want to just know about God or ourselves — we’re wired for relationship. Knowing God, not just knowing about God. Knowing others, not just knowing about them. Knowing ourselves, not just sharpening our own self-labeling.

Finally, there are host of different ways of conceptualizing the spiritual journey from non-believer to believer, and from believer to increasingly sanctified believer (I’m partial to the Gray Matrix), but the important thing is to remember that, however conceived, the point is to meet someone where they’re at and co-journey with them to the next step, whatever that is).

What do we “connect?” We help people connect to Jesus, which necessarily is a way, a truth, and a the path of life. It is first God’s story…and we are simply part of that. And there is no better antidote to a postmodern, post-Christian world where “my truth” and “your truth” are bantered about than to offer the Great Shepherd who’s words are both invitation and command: “follow me.”

P.S. If you reeeally want to get geeky about connectorship, let’s talk about the academic discipline of social capital. Short of that, suffice it to say that I really believe that relationship is the oldest new killer app.

“In the moment” or “as you are going” spiritual care — a crazy story!

A critical element of providing spiritual care is relationship. “Being there” when the baloney hits the fan for someone often (usually?) begins with relationship that’s already been established by doing life together, talking about football or breaking bread or serving alongside each other at the local Union Gospel Mission.

But sometimes it’s just what happens, right? Consider…

Kristine and I were en route from eastern Tennessee back to Nashville as part of a trip where we were praying over where God would have us serve. And after a stop for some food, I wanted a Diet Pepsi for the road, so we pulled into a gas station that had a mini-mart.

I got to the counter with my prey and said to the gal behind the counter, “How’s your day?”

Tracie — the store manager by the designation on her name tag — didn’t look good. And she said so.

In a way that was jovial (almost jokingly, if I’m honest) I said, “Is it time for us to have a prayer meetin’?” 

She didn’t skip a beat, and she didn’t take it as a joke: “Yes. My friend JUST got raped and just tried to commit suicide.” 

By this time a sharply-dressed black man came in the store and was standing behind me. I motioned him over. He stepped up to the counter. I didn’t —as I usually do — ask for permission to put my hand on her shoulder. I don’t even know why…I just did it.

And I started praying, out loud, there in the gas station, for her friend.

Minutes later Kristine and I were on the freeway and I just sat there in stunned silence. I barely remember what I prayed. In hindsight I could have probably offered to call the police or something. I’m sure I could have prayed a better prayer.

But God doesn’t need our perfect prayers…He delights in our willingness to step into battle. And I was feeling “winded” because I had just gone into spiritual battle at the drop of a hat… …with a gal and some other stranger in a gas station mini mart.

I don’t share this in self-aggrandizement. I share because I look back and realize how unlike me — and how very much like the Spirit — that was.

It’s one thing to think formally about spiritual formation and providing spiritual care to students or coworkers or parishioners.

But it’s maybe another thing to equip them to be ready at any given moment to, “as you are going,” step into the fight.

Truth and the true church of Christ will always be under assault. We may or may not have time to premeditate our response.

If we don’t answer young people’s questions and invite them to a different mission, who will?

Sitting in Sean McDowell's class many years ago, Sean told a story of his own journey in the shadow of a famously well-known apologist father. And the way his dad addressed Sean’s doubt’s was simply to encourage him to pursue truth — confident that Sean would find that only Christianity would satisfy his deepest desires, including for truth.

That’s how I think about working with youth and young adults. We know that the number one reason young people 18-34 leave the church is because their questions don’t get answered adequately.

This comes in several forms. Two — not addressing difficult cultural issues or inadequately addressing them — are often are expressed in a form of anti-intellectualism that tells you to ‘just have faith.’

And this makes me sad.

Upholding the primacy and veracity of Jesus, Christianity, and Bible need not include checking one’s brain at the door. Indeed, it’s difficult to follow Jesus with all heart, soul, and mind if we do.

I’ll not deep dive approaches to apologetics here. Suffice it to say, though, that being prepared to offer an answer with gentleness and respect (1 Pe 3:15-16) as we contend for the faith (Jude 3) and refute false teaching (Ti 1:9; 1 Ti 2:24-26) isn’t all about debates and explicit debunking.

What I have found is that walking with people through life means that a) you’re with them when the difficult moments come and b) if you’ve earned trust, you’ll have an opportunity to speak into their life.

And like Josh McDowell’s response to his son Sean, we need not fear doubts and questionings and searchings in our families or students or small groups or whomever we serve.

Indeed, we may just have an opportunity to serve in relational, communal Christianity in a way that God designed. Psychologists recognize that parents (ideally) help their children grow from dependence to independence to interdependence. Some part of their individuation includes forming attachments beyond their nuclear parents.

And isn’t one point of community to provide a place for them to form new attachments who will, as an alternative to TikTok or other purveyors of cultural narratives, to provide young people a place to form attachments and explore ideas in a way that will keep pointing them back to the Gospel?

That’s been my experience as a leader. Young people are deeper than they’re given credit for, and if we don’t answer their big questions and point them in the direction of identity, meaning, and purpose, who will?

What’s your position on inerrancy?

To be fair, I could write 500 posts here answering “what’s your position on…,” but here’s why inerrancy is near and dear to my heart: because we need to be able to defend the validity of the Bible as a set of historical documents as part of the broader argument. It’s where we learn about Jesus, and if we get Jesus wrong, we’ve got a problem (called making up your own Jesus and gospel, Galatians 1:6).

When doing my MA in Apologetics, we spent a year on just the topic of the Bible, textual criticism, inspiration/inerrancy/infallibility/authority/perspicuity, etc. I’m blessed that Talbot School of Theology (Biola University) takes this seriously.

To shorten this post, just know that I align, without reservation, the entirety of the Chicago Statement on Inerrancy in all it’s affirmations and denials. I appreciate in particular that the broader text includes argumentation for the contextual setting and hermeneutical approach.

What is “5000 coffees?”

You’ll often hear me talk about “5000 coffees,” which my own short hand for “spiritual engagement.” But it’s not original to me.

A couple years ago I was sitting in one of my doctoral classes, and the time had turned to open dialogue with the two profs. One of the profs was also a successful pastor, and a student asked him the secret to his success. His answer, “5000 coffees.”

The reason it struck me was because it was what I was already doing.

We sometimes use words like “discipleship,” “mentoring,” and “spiritual formation” in ways that represent a pretty broad semantic range. I’m probably guilty of that, too.

But the reason “5000 coffees” struck me (and even became the basis of my doctoral thesis project) is because whether the occasion was a business lunch, a guy I was mentoring in an addiction recovery program, or even buying a t-shirt at a concert merchandise table, I see all conversations as spiritual and relational.

And in a context of service — pastorally or otherwise — getting to know the people you serve, being genuinely curious (if not patient!), it how we cut through the noise in a seriously noisy world.

The old adage is almost a cliche’ — people don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care, right?

Maybe I’m weird. But I can sit down with anybody and genuinely say, “Tell me your story.”

And one key to my “first 100 days” plan at your organization is 5000 coffees (give or take a few).

Are you open to other roles that aren’t technically “pastor” roles?

Most certainly.

Here’s why, and why I think it might make sense to you.

I’m pastoral in my every day life. I don’t need a job title…I AM a pastor.

Further, I’m wired as a teacher, disciple-maker, and relationship builder. Training and development has not only been my long-time secular career, but helping people grow in their walk with Jesus is what I do every day because I can’t not do so.

I build relationship, and I live a ministry of the Word — teaching, discipling, mentoring, leading, guiding, facilitating, curriculum and event planning, coordinating classes and groups and meetings and outings, and on and on.

In short, living to help people “move one notch closer to Jesus” could just as easily be at a university or non-profit ministry as a formal church.

If you’ve got a position where I can use the gifts God has given me, let’s talk.

Tell us about your personal relationship with Jesus Christ

I’ll be honest, this question makes me immediately think of a book like John Stott’s Why I Am a Christian.

Short: I have one, a real one, a Spirit-filled, daily, and deep one.

Longer: Like many people this relationship has evolved and matured over the years. But to me the important distinction is “Do you live life with a few Jesus sprinkles on top?” or “Do you actively pursue, nurture, and intentionally grow in relationship?”

If you appreciate Scott McKnight’s Jesus Creed (I do!), you’ll appreciate that knowing the Great Commandment and living are not always synonymous. It’s more than my morning devotions where I a) LOVE GOD by reading and praying on my own and then b) LOVE OTHERS read and pray for my daily podcast audience). Further, we’re not loving Jesus if we don’t keep his commandments to love others (Jn 14:15), and that happens in a host of intetional, interpersonal ways.

Longest: I’m not going to write a book here about “Why I Am a Christian,” but if I did it would necessarily include a nearly inexhaustible list of little things. By analogy, it’s like my relationship with my wife — you get to know someone in a way that changes you, enables you to finish each other's sentences, know what the other person values and how they’d make a decision, and on and on. I try to be a good bride THAT way for my Lord, Savior, and Husband, Jesus.

Describe your volunteer activities during the last 5 years

When it comes to church involvement, volunteer activities, services organizations, community involvement, etc., there is a deep and varied answer.

Before I describe those, however, let me ask you a question – are you asking about formal or informal involvement?

Here’s why.

God’s rather clear he wants your heart, not your religiosity, right (Isaiah 1:11-17, Amos 5:21-24, Mark 12:33, et al)?

I’ll list all the formal activities below, but I’d hope you think it important to understand how I started engaging a homeless guy who sleeps in his car on the route where I run in the morning or how I share the gospel when the opportunity presents itself. Further, there are a host of other ways I act in a pastoral capacity, exclusive of a “formal context.” That’s the informal in terms of volunteer activities.

On the SEMI-formal side of the equation, in my small group leadership I have, for instance, worked with them to plan a night to go make burritos and go feed homeless people.

Finally, in a formal sense I’ve served for a few years as preacher/teacher/facilitator with Union Gospel Mission’s LifeChange program in their mandatory chapel services, played on worship team for many years, co-led a church-based experimental a men’s group designed to pair guys new in their faith with mature believers, taught worldview classes, and on and on.

What if?

I have a large library (reeeally large), but if I was on a desert island and could have but five books, Norm Geisler’s systematic theology would be four of them.

I was recently watching the documentary about his life and a few things struck me.

One, the title: Not Qualified. It’s like that could be my story. Not because I’m an intellect like him (trust me, I’m not!), but because I’m so desperately aware that if something good is going to happen, it has to be the Holy Spirit.

Two, he was a late bloomer. I’d heard it before, but I was reminded that Geisler was nearly done with high school when they figured out he couldn’t read. And this dude went on to get a PhD (but not ‘til he was nearly 40), wrote more than 100 books, founded a seminary, and on and on. Of course, history is full of late bloomers (e.g., Ray Kroc, Laura Ingalls Wilder), and I’m both inspired by that and it’s part of my own family story.

Finally, his own words “What if…?” were repeated ad nauseam in the part of the documentary that spoke about one of his own kids committing suicide. The truth is, I’ve never known a pastor who didn’t struggle with that in some way — knowing that their own shortcomings have affected others, particularly their family. Sadly, there are numerous stories of Christian influencers who looked back to regret that their family paid a price (e.g., Billy Graham, AW Tozer, et al). The documentary was a reminder that we can’t change the past, but we can change how we serve now.

That’s me. I’m no intellect like Geisler, and what I started were businesses rather than seminaries. What I traveled the world teaching (at least to date) was presentation skills, not theology and apologetics. My past includes divorce and mess. I can’t change any of that. But, as I trust my references will confirm, I’m an example of what God can do in someone’s life.

I’m a late-to-Christ late bloomer, a “what if” asker, and maybe I’m just smart enough to realize that I fall SO short in so many ways that if there is any fruit from my life, God gets all the credit.

I was one time named “the world leading expert in…” And now I hope it’s CT Studd’s words that are true of me…

Only one life, ’twill soon be past,

Only what’s done for Christ will last.

You can “what if” yourself to death. What if I’d gone to seminary in my 20s instead of my 50s? What if I’d been a Christian and equally-yoked? What if…? What if…?

All you have right now is today. And the chance to sing…

Only one life, ’twill soon be past,

Only what’s done for Christ will last.

Lead, associate, executive, or…?

This’ll probably sound weird, but the right fit will probably be more psychographically determined than demographically.

Here’s my two-sided question back to you: How do you define it? And what’s the nature of the team relative to what you want me to do?

For example, “associate pastor” can mean anything from “part of the core preaching/teaching team who takes rotations in the pulpit” to “guy who just does hospital visitations and administrative stuff the lead pastor doesn’t want to do.”

To me, then, the question is one of the team.

Am I entirely alone with an few other elders? Ok. I ran my own business, self-employed as a professional speaker for years. At most I had 1.5 employees. I don’t have the gift of administration, but you do what you gotta do (including outsourcing stuff like bookkeeping and accounting to real pros).

Thus, the idea of being a solo pastor in a small church somewhere might work. But what’s the elder team like, and do I get a little grace in the areas I’m not strong in?

Am I an “associate?” I’ll be honest, this is an exciting possibility to me. In one sense, I’m not a rookie and have led/built organizations and managed teams. But I also realize that while some part of that experience is transferrable, leading a church isn’t the same as leading a business. I have a LOT to learn. And I’d LOVE to do it on a team. I’ve used the band analogy before: am I the keyboard player who also happens to be able to pick up a mandolin… not the lead singer but a key contributor to both vision/strategy and tactical execution? Bring it. Sounds great.

Might I, because of my business/entrepreneurial background, be an executive pastor? Much like I articulated elsewhere, there’s a difference between what we’re all called to do (a general call as part of following Jesus) and having “the gift” (a particular calling and gifting). Let me be clear: I do not have the gift of administration (defined, in my estimation, as those who thrive in operations). But do I have a history and experience that means I could well manage your next building lease and working with/through an accountant to be fiscally sound both in present management and future investment? Yes. Am I an HR director that will perfectly nail being chief of staff? No. Do I know how to get that done otherwise? Yes. Running your own business doesn’t mean you’ve got the gift of administration, but you definitely learn how to get things done nonetheless.

Again, the question is how do you define the role… really, as in fer realz?. And then who are the other team members.

What this really boils down to is a level of nuance that is almost NEVER seen at initial levels of dialogue. Let’s be honest:

• Your job description, no matter how much you labored over it, only partially represents the position — and it almost never represents the team culture and nuances that help determine ‘fit.’

• My resume and even this website, barely scratches the surface of (good stuff) what I bring to the table or (bad stuff) where I really suck and need some help.

I know my gifts and strengths and weaknesses deeply. And I trust that you’ll just learn to trust that I’ll accurately represent those in our dialogue together.

Over the years (decades!), I’ve figured out that — for me, anyway — the ‘devil is in the details,’ and the only way to get to ‘marriage’ is to start dating. Evaluating a dating profile might be the beginning, but neither of us will EVER figure out the character of the other person from a profile. Ya gotta start dating.

So here’s my two-sided question back to you: How do you define the role? And what’s the nature of the team relative to what you want me to do?

(Oh, and this could even be a non-pastor role…IF it’s a role that aligns with my gifts).

How would you delineate the task vs calling of evangelism?

A couple weeks ago I attended a secular concert of one of my favorite songwriters (Glen Phillips) in Seattle. It was a dinner theatre kind of venue, so Kristine and I showed up early and made a casual date of it.

Before the show started, I took a moment to hit the men’s room and swing by the “merch” table to buy a t-shirt. It turned out that I was the only one there. Before I was done finishing the transaction, I’d struck up a conversation with the gal behind the table, found out that she’d had some experience with churchianity in the past, and in the process shared the gospel with her. This wasn’t just a ‘name-drop Jesus’ moment…but it did include a complete presentation of the gospel. Kristine then had to listen to me gush about God’s goodness when I got back to our table. We right then and there prayed for her.

Did I issue an altar call? No. There was no explicit request for a “decision.”

I don’t share the story to self-aggrandize. Rather, it got me to thinking: that an outworking of the Holy Spirit’s role in the missio Dei that is distinguished between general and special calling.

Don’t miss this nuance:

ALL Christians are called to share the good news, to be ready to give an answer for their hope (e.g., Acts 1:8, 8:4; Mt 28:18-20; 1 Pe 3:15; 2 Co 5:18-20).

SOME are called and gifted with the spiritual gift of evangelism (e.g., Eph 4:11-12; Acts 21:8; 1 Co 12:28-31).

Further, I’d preach/teach that preachers and teachers are held to a higher account (e.g., Js 3:1; Ez 34:2-10; He 3:17; Lk 12:48), this leads finally to what I think is the lynchpin of this little post: buried in 2 Ti 4:5, Paul exhorts to the young Timothy to “do the work of an evangelist.”

And unless I’m missing something, Paul doesn’t have the particular gifting in mind here. Rather, he is to evangelize regardless of whether or not he also has the particular gift.

How would I delineate the task versus the calling?

There are better men than me to write the commentary on all this. But by analogy, not all have the particular gift of hospitality or administration, either…but all Christians are tasked with such at some level generally. The same is true with evangelism…except that it appears pastors bear a special burden to live in such a way that the gospel is shared intentionally.

Do I have the gift of evangelism? Sadly, no. I’m just willing to do the work of an evangelist.

TN or NC in June 2024? What’s up with that?

June 17 update, original post below

Have you ever had one of those moments?

That’s what Kristine and I were experiencing on our flight home yesterday — looking at each other and going, “Is God speaking to you like I think He’s speaking to me?”

We traveled from Nashville to Dayton, Dayton to Knoxville/Gatlinburg, Gatlinburg to Asheville, NC, and from Asheville up through Johnson City and eventually back to Nashville.

What we did experience is a TOTALLY unexpected draw of our hearts to something undefined. We don’t know if it’s a particular ministry or location in that area, but in a way you’ll just have to trust me for, it was unexpectedly strong. We’ve been lifelong residents of the Pacific Northwest, and we’re flying home literally going, “Really, Lord?” Something moved in our hearts.

What we did not experience was knowing exactly what, where, or when. I’ve found two different positions at Christian colleges that would be awesome, but that’s ok given that, to me, "being pastoral” has a broad semantic range.

I’ve an opportunity right where I’m at to do an intentional ‘residency’ as an associate pastor while I finish my DMin. At a human level, I could make an argument for moving to Tennessee this summer and I could equally make an argument for hunkering down where I’m at for another year or two.

Fortunately this isn’t something I have to do solely in my own wisdom.

Thank you, Lord, that you’ll come through with the right answer when the time is right. It’s your church and mission. And I pray that Kristine and I will simply be ready to serve you today where you have us today, letting you take care of tomorrow.

***

Kristine and I have this in common: We’re very much natives of the Pacific Northwest AND we have traveled a ton.

She’s done more internationally (and I mean, a LOT), and I’ve done more domestically (have been in all 50 states).

But there’s been this niggling we’ve had about eastern Tennessee/western North Carolina (think Knoxville to Asheville), so we booked a trip to do a “prayer walk” road trip.

We’ll be there June 9th-16th.

If you know someone we should visit in between, we’re building our itinerary around God-shaped appointments.

Would THESE be an asset to you?

I’m passionate about helping people engage (and trust!) their Bibles…and it doesn’t take much poking to figure out I read the Bible into a microphone every day.

Further, I’ve written a few books in the secular world, and I’ve published one for Jesus (made up of some podcasting scripts/stories) entitled A Ministry of Showing Up: #ForTheHope’s Reflections for Jesus Followers with Day Jobs.

Importantly, the question on the table isn’t the specificity of the podcast or book…. it’s the approach to engaging one’s community. Read that again. The point here isn’t those particular media assets.

Here’s why I ask the question, though.

I’m a visionary. I see an easy connection between the local church and how alternative media forms — podcast, book, Facebook, etc — integrate with how a local community reached and served.

But you don’t exactly find many pastor job descriptions that ask if the candidate is media-ready, right?

Don’t miss this point:

The point of this little bit of dialogue isn’t to lay out a lengthy argument so much as to point out something we should talk about.

• Ask me about how “5000 coffees” has been critical to me “doing the work of an evangelist.” (2 Tim 4:5)

• Ask me about how I think (know, actually) a book affects perception of outsiders.

• Ask me how we might engage and encourage discipleship in ways that actually integrate with existing (and important!) traditional modalities such as life groups, family ministries, recovery ministries, etc.

I just rarely — okay, never — see a job description that includes, “Hey, it’d be great if you could write little books that would help congregants have conversations with their neighbors at a BBQ” or the like.

I look forward to the chat. ;-)

THIS kind of covenant makes sense to me — how does it strike YOU?

The pastoral role is relational. It can’t be anything but, IMHO, and I’m guessing most would agree.

But do you see it as covenantal?

Our relationship with Jesus is. So is our marital relationship.

But what about pastor-church?

It very much IS, I believe.

I found the content below from a search firm who had a “sample pastor+congregation covenant.”

I’ve just copied/pasted here. The point is NOT the exact details. The point is providing a starting point — first and foremost thinking about the relationship as guided by covenantal commitment.

I hope that you also think its at least reflective of God’s way of doing business.

You?

Here’s an example I’ve seen:

*****

THE CHURCH AND THE PASTOR AGREE 

Spiritual Support

In awareness of the support needed for ministry together, the congregation and pastor mutually agree to support one another in private and public prayer.

Building the Relationships

To develop the relationships and trust necessary to a long-term pastor-church partnership, the church and pastor agree to involve the region staff of <name of denomination or organizational entity> in the process of reviewing and building the relationship.

Ministry Goals

Goals speak to actions and activities. This list should be general (3 to 5 items) and should keep in mind the agreed to time available for pastoral work.

• Pastoral Leadership Expectations

         Based on position description or provide a general description of how the pastor will be involved in leading the church

• Congregational Leadership and Membership Expectations

Taking in to account the kinds of expectations for pastoral leadership named above, develop a description of how the congregational leadership and members will assist and support the pastor in giving this kind of leadership. 

THE CHURCH AGREES

Compensation

In awareness of regional minimums, and the experience and education of the person we are calling, we agree to provide total annual compensation of $_______ in the form of cash salary and suitable housing.

The annual cash salary shall be $ ___________.

The housing arrangement shall be:

An annual housing allowance of $ ______ which shall be used as determined by the pastor, to buy or rent a home including utilities, furnishings, and appurtenances to the home.

         OR

The congregation shall provide a parsonage and pay $________ for utilities.

Reimbursement of Professional Expenses

To provide reimbursement for professional expenses incurred by the pastor in the exercise of the church’s ministry as follows:

Automobile expense will be reimbursed at the current IRS mileage rate of _________ cents per mile, up to a maximum of $___________.

The expenses incurred by the pastor as a delegate to the area/regional annual meeting and/or continuing education up to $_________ and _________ weeks for study annually. 

Fringe Benefits

Retirement: to provide the full Ministers and Missionaries Benefit Board (MMBB) benefits and protections for the pastor and family.

The church will cooperate with the pastor in any salary withholding arrangements as may be desired, e.g., the pastor’s membership in the Annuity Supplement Plan (TAS) and Flexible Spending Accounts.

Disability

In the event that the pastor is disabled from illness and/or accident and unable to continue the responsibilities required, the church agrees to coordinate benefits with those available through Social Security and the MMBB in order to safeguard the well-being of the pastor and the pastor’s family.

If the period of disability is for a period of three (3) months or less, the church agrees to continue full salary and benefits.

If the period of disability extends beyond three (3) months, the church agrees to work with MMBB to make application for disability benefits and reach an agreement for service and remuneration, which would safeguard both the interests of the pastor and the church.

Note: This benefit is only in effect after the pastor enrolls in the Retirement/Death Benefit Plans.

Vacation

To provide an annual paid vacation of _____weeks. The pastor shall coordinate the use of vacation time with the appropriate church body. A reasonable amount of time devoted to sharing in state and national work, continuing education experiences, giving leadership at camps and conferences, and similar activities shall not be considered as part of the vacation period.

Review

To review, at the end of 6 months and then again before the end of the first year, the matters contained in this agreement with a view toward making such changes as may be mutually desirable and acceptable, taking into account inflationary pressures.

In case of disagreement over conduct or interpretation of this agreement or the Covenant and Code of Ethics, the church and/or the pastor will seek the services of region staff.

THE PASTOR AGREES

To provide pastoral leadership for the _________ Church, beginning _________. 

To work a minimum of _____ hours/week in the ministry of this congregation and regularly report goals and progress regarding work on these goals to __________ (leadership group of the church).

To seek to maintain a cooperative relationship with neighboring sister churches of <org here>, <org> at large and the mission efforts of <org>. Attendance at the local <org meeting/conference> is expected. 

To abide by the Covenant and Code of Ethics.

To serve in the pastoral relationship with the church until such time as it is terminated in accordance with the constitution and/or bylaws of the ______________ Church, and <org>. It is understood that the termination by either pastor or church requires _____ days notice, unless a shorter notice is mutually agreeable.

__________. Signed/Dated by Pastor

__________ Signed/Dated by Moderator

__________ Signed/Dated by Chair of Search Team

*****

Again, the point is not the exact details herein…it’s the heart: Does the church see their relationship as covenantal with the pastor?

Because this I AM sure off… Kristine and I take our relationship with the church as covenantal in the same way as our relationship maritally is covenantal.

Do you have examples of your storytelling?

I used to do regular “reflections” on the podcast (when I had more time), and many are hosted on my old website. And because of my time in marketplace ministry leadership with Follower of One, a number of these were oriented toward folks in that area of serving.

(NOTE: The links below take you to the OLD website, but it’s still functional)

REFLECTIONS

An octopus and the universal desire for relational harmony
Exploring a different style of storytelling: Joseph of Arimathea
Boyed cheese sandwiches and Easter
Who is Ray Miller?
Her name was Rachel, and this is my story
Loneliness and the big questions of life
Taking up your cross in Mark 8
“Sometimes life..." or "then they will know that I am the Lord."
Broccoli, candy, and an important question to ask
Jesus, sex, and the purity conversation

The dead calm of indifference (Song of Songs 4:16)
Preaching the Gospel to yourself (2 Timothy 2:1)
Be like the moon (Job 38:31-35)
Love like it is well (2 Corinthians 1:3-5)
Standing on the promises (reflection on Joshua 18-19)

MARKETPLACE STORIES

God is good...all the time? An unlikely encounter.
Numbers, people, and two leadership worldviews
A printer and a paradigm shift
A ministry of showing up
The boy on the board
God's value versus market value, a critical distinction.

What is Kristine’s role?

Rightly or wrongly, a pastor’s wife bears a degree of scrutiny from a congregation. And while it may no longer be true (generally), there was a time when the pastor was a “two for one” deal.

Kristine is a long-term employee in the world of telecom and data centers. She works remotely, so her job can go with us wherever we’re called — and as you’ll hear in other parts of our story, “going where God calls us” is something she and I discussed in our first couple dates.

But that doesn’t mean she comes to run the kids’ ministry or something like that. She has a full-time gig (plus her own extracurricular studies).

To be clear, MY expectation of Kristine is no more and no less than any other parishioner.

I’d exhort her privately what I’d exhort every congregant publicly — that God’s call to follow Jesus is that a) your response to His mercy is one of sacrificial service and generosity, b) unity in community and c) using your Spirit-given gifts to love God and neighbor (including even your enemies).

Yes, we both realize (together) that congregants will place their own burdens and expectations on a pastor’s wife. That’s part of life in a church where the marks of culture and sin are present (which is all of them).

But generally speaking, this isn’t a two-for-one Blue Plate Special, per se.

My simple response is: What does the Bible call every single Christian to as a child of God, a disciple of Christ?

THAT is my one and only expectation of Kristine’s role along side me as a pastor. No more, no less.

What’s your vibe and adaptability?

I spent 34 years in Portland, Oregon…the place that put the “casual” in “Friday casual.” I also worked in the tech industry which is famously casual.

Kristine’s from the Seattle area. And works in tech…but long ago worked at Nordstrom. She’s the classy one of the two of us.

So I can and do wear a jackets…but it’s still over top a pair of jeans.

Honestly, though, my long time home church in Portland (before moving to Seattle to marry Kristine) is as hipster/low-brow/tattoo-friendly as they come. Theologically it (and I) are conservative, but as far from formal as you could get.

As it turns out, Kristine and I are both well-traveled and I have lived lots of places. I’m used to adapting culturally.

But on the average day we’re “beauty and the beast,” and she’s the beauty. And I’m the guy usually dressing down instead of dressing up.

What Bible verses most speak to you (and how do they touch down)?

I’m not exactly a “What’s your life verse?” kind of guy, but there are a few that SO resonate with me that they ring in my head almost daily.

As for me, I vow that I will not sin against the Lord by ceasing to pray for you. I will teach you the good and right way. ~1 Samuel 12:23, CSB

Even as the Israelites insisted on having a king like all the surrounding nations, Samuel loved them enough to a) warn them and b) commit to them his faithfulness.

That’s what God does with us, right?

That’s my commitment to my first ministry (Kristine!), and that’s how I think about shepherding a flock. Prayer, preaching, and care ARE the work, right?

A person’s heart plans his way, but the Lord determines his steps. ~Proverbs 16:9, CSB

I could tell you story after story about how this has touched down in my life, how…

• …in the span of a few weeks I went from a breakfast conversation in Portland, Oregon to studying for five weeks in Oxford, England

• …I ended up working on my DMin at Denver Seminary (and how a DMin in Spiritual Formation relates to an MA in Apologetics)

• …the Lord revealed to me one step in front of me that resulted in marriage and moving to Tacoma, Washington and turning down an offer for a pastoral role along the way

• ….I believe that “the call” may be a ‘road to Damascus’ moment for some people, but is more likely to be like the wandering, stumbling path that Peter took

• …Kristine and I have been praying that the Lord would lead us to a locality — congregation, town or region or people group to be reached, etc., be it near or far to our Seattle-area location.

In a host of ways, this relates to a couple verses that I think sum up nearly all the ethics of the New Testament:

Therefore, brothers and sisters, in view of the mercies of God, I urge you to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God; this is your true worship. Do not be conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may discern what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God. ~Romans 12:1-2, CSB

When I started serving regularly in the weekly chapel services for LifeChange (at Union Gospel Mission in Portland, OR), I prayerfully began by preaching through Romans 12.

But in the last couple years my own view of “preaching” and “pastoring” has been transformed by what I have learned while serving at UGM:

• “Relational” over “transactional.” As I preached through Romans 12, the Lord hammered home “relational spirituality” to me such that it became the focus of my DMin thesis (Romans 12 is the application of the Gospel to loving God, loving/being the church, and even loving one’s enemies).

• Dialogue beats monologue. I began serving by ‘delivering a message’ at UGM’s chapel services, but what I found was “circling up the chairs” and facilitating a lesson conversationally had a greater impact.

This dovetails with my passion for applied theology — our ability to connect. It’s the subject of my doctoral work. And it’s rooted in one of the quintessential verses used in apologetics — that relational spirituality isn’t just about the “what,” it’s also very much about the “how”:

…but in your hearts regard Christ the Lord as holy, ready at any time to give a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you. Yet do this with gentleness and reverence… ~1 Peter 3:15–16a, CSB

“For the hope” is where the name of my podcast and personal ministry comes from, but there’s more to me than that.

In this “now and not-yet” life the “now” is both being ready to give an apologia, but it’s also an incarnational caring. Peter was writing to the diaspora during what was probably a reign of Nero. Identifying with Jesus came at a cost.

But your identity is itself rooted in hope — and hope is inherently “history and eschatalogy.” To paraphrase Lewis Smedes, remembering redemptively is trusting that a God who has always been trustworthy can be counted on for a history which is yet future to us.

And don’t we live in just such a world with just such a need for the gospel?

Why, yes. Yes we do.

It’s not original to me, but I’d argue that politics simply follows culture, and culture simply follows worldview. So where are we at with origin, identity, meaning, morality, and destiny?

We need to help the Holy Spirit form people spiritually for a world of spiritual warfare.